Friday, October 15, 2010
E bell DOLL'S HOUSE due Friday 22
Society often forces women into many unhealthy relationships. In A Doll’s House, Nora is in a way forced to marry Torvald. However, this leads to her unhappiness. When she leaves Torvald, She is then considered a “feminist.” In several novel’s and short stories we have read this year, the protagonist is considered a feminist, but the characters are not always truly feminist. Do you think Nora is a feminist? Why or Why not? When the protagonist rebels from societal marrital standards, does she break bigger moral standards? You may compare is to other works we have read. It’s very open-ended.
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Nora is certainly a feminist character in A Doll’s House. It is quite easily seen through all of the independent actions she goes through, and her longing to be free of her “debt” to men. Nora does not originally seem like she is feminist, but as the story proceeds the reader finds out the purpose of the money she asks Torvald for. Then the realization occurs that Nora has the need to do a man’s job, according to the time period, which is managing money. Nora leaving Torvald demonstrates her affiliation with herself, and her need to manage her own money. As Nora leaves Torvald, she breaks her ties to societal standards, but in doing so, Nora also breaks larger moral standards. For she leaves her children fatherless. Strong morals would not put any child in this predicament, unless the father is abusive or has wronged in some way. Torvald in fact forgives Nora even though she has lied to him for some time now about her debt. He may have only done this due to the letter recieved stating that Nora was no longer in debt, thanks to Mrs. Linde. Even with such a forgiving husband, Nora must be feminist in her actions, and break societal and moral standards in the leaving of Torvald to manage her own money and own life.
ReplyDelete“A Doll’s House” Henrik Ibsen is considered to be a largely feminist literary work. This is based on the main character Nora who constantly challenges the societal expectations. This feminist tone is first set when it is revealed that Nora previously received a loan by herself, without a true legal cosigner, which went against the expectation that finances should be handled by men. However, the novel increases this feminist tone even more when Nora decides to leave her husband Torvald and her three children. Not only did Nora challenge the marital expectation for a mother to be the caretaker of a family by abandoning her family and breaking away from the typical doll playing house. She also breaks the larger moral standard of leaving her family members to fend for them because women are thought to be caretakers of the family. Nora leaves her family to bring “absolute freedom” to Torvald and Nora so they can grow into people they truly want to be instead of conforming to societal expectations of a marriage (1761). Overall, Nora is considered a feminist character because she challenges the distinct marital and moral standards of women during her time period. The feminist Nora can easily be compared to Janie in “Their Eyes were Watching God.” Janie challenges marital expectations throughout “Their Eyes were Watching God” when she abandons her first husband Logan Killicks like Nora did to Torvald. Janie also goes against societal expectation when Janie does not mourn Jody’s death and starts dating Tea Cake only a few months after his death similar to how Nora abandoned her family with little emotional consideration. Because of Nora’s contradiction to the marital and moral standards of women at the time of “A Doll’s House,” Nora and the literary work is largely considered to be feminist.
ReplyDeleteAs we discussed in class, there is a debate over whether or not Nora leaving Torvald is a sign of strength or weakness. One weakness of Nora is that she leaves her children without a mother, which is an obvious break from moral standards. However, there is much strength in Nora’s character, and this strength conveys her as a feminist character. When considering her feminism, it is most important to look at the time period that she lives in. Nora lives in the Victorian time period during the late 1800s. In this era, it was virtually impossible for a woman to survive on her own because there were not opportunities to work as there are today. Therefore, it was expected that all women would be married, take care of the children and cook, and be their husbands’ possessions. This is evident when Nora refers to herself as “[Torvald’s] doll” (1760). Nora leaving Torvald is a clear sign of feminism as it demonstrates a longing for independence in an era where independence for women was extremely difficult to achieve. If an event like this occurred today, it would be a lesser example of feminism as women have equal opportunity to work as men. Nora, Torvald’s “lark”, “squirrel”, and “doll”, clearly breaks from societal standards, and this illustrates the feminism in the roots of Ibsen’s Victorian play.
ReplyDeleteAs mentioned in class today, Ibsen did not intend for A Doll House to be considered a feminist work. He was addressing the repressive nature of Victorian societal standards by illustrating the “tensions of a nineteenth-century middleclass marriage in which a wife struggles to step beyond the limited identity imposed on her by her husband and society” (The Bedford Introduction, 1713). However, the fluid progression of time has led us to a different era, one where characters such as Nora become perfect emulations of the feminist cause. These changing interpretations respond to one important variable in literature analysis: moral standards of the specific era. While Victorian standards dictated that a woman should be a dignified wife, mother, and household figure, today's standards emphasize, equally, the importance of individuality, opportunity, and equality in women. Note the key difference: external vs. internal. This clash of internal and external creates the aura of independence and strength that so many perceive in the modern interpretation of Nora. She is a free-spirit; this is what we admire in her. The independent, strong-willed nature of her character typifies what an inspirational woman should be. This does not mean she is perfect by any means, but rather it identifies her as a model of resistance to the limitations women should not submit to. Edna Pontellier, feminist mother of two and wife of middle/upper class businessman Leonce Pontellier in Kate Chopin's The Awakening serves as another brilliant example of this philosophy. Edna represents the ability and willingness of a "strong" woman, to turn away from societal imperfections, even at the tragic cost of one's children, husband, and life, literally! Ibsen’s conclusion to A Doll House reinforces this concept emphatically, stamping his work as an example of a break from the norm during this period, “You don’t understand me…don’t interrupt. You can just listen to what I say. We’re closing out accounts, Torvald” (1757). One can imagine this comes across as much of shock to Torvald as it does the Victorian reader. Ultimately, this decision defines Nora as a feminist character.
ReplyDeleteNora can certainly be seen as a feminist in a "A Doll's House" because society brings out her rebellious side and forces her to go against her standards. Throughout the novel, Torvald treats Nora like a piece of property by referring to her as "my Nora" and also by referring to her as his "little lark" or "little squirrel". During the Victorian period women had a two important duties in life: motherhood and marriage. When Nora left her husband and children she showed her selfishness and weakness, which also separates her from her moral standards. Cooking, cleaning, taking care of the children, and being a housewife was a sacred duty to women in this era and was expected by them. Women who did not have this duty were looked down upon. Nora followed her duty as a housewife, but did not appreciate how she was living her life. When Nora left Torvald and her children, it was a sign of her gaining her independence, which was not part of societal standards. Nora's actions separates her from society and gives the reader a feminist message about her.
ReplyDeleteIs Nora a feminist, or is she merely a desperate woman in a time of great female oppression? I believe that the latter is the case for several reasons. Firstly, unlike many of the other feminist heroines that we have studied in the last year, Nora does not go through an "awakening" process or act in any sort of rebellion against the patriarchal society. The only action that she takes that might be considered "rebellious", before her dramatic exit of course, would be her original act of forging her husband's signature. But even this is not an act of female empowerment. If anything, it increases her dependence and subjugation to her husband, who is the sole motivation behind the act of forgery in the first place. Those that would argue that Nora is a feminist might say that her confession to Krogstad in Act 2 that s she does not love her husband proves that she has achieved some level of awakened thought, and that her inevitable abandonment of her husband further cements this idea. However, I would respond that coming to a realization about love and marriage is only the first step in a true awakening process, only after which that a character can become truly independent. For instance, when Janie Starks, from Zora Neale Hurston's Their Eyes Were Watching God, is disillusioned about her relationship with Logan Killicks, her first husband, she leaves him. However, her leaving him was only the first step in a large journey that only empowered her near the very end. Similarly, when Nora leaves her husband, she is only just embarking on her path to self-awareness and acceptance, a long path that can only be overcome with time. For this reason in particular, it is clear to me that Nora is no more a feminist than a man with a boat is a fisherman. In both cases, they have only begun to understand their calling, and have only just started to work towards that goal.
ReplyDeletein a dolls house, Nora can be argued as a feminist on not. i believe that she is a feminist in many ways. She starts out in debt to a man, and this can be seen as a weakness, BUT she also took it upon herself to go against society and get the loan from a man in a time period where women were not suppose to deal with that sort of bussiness. She also is seen working various little jobs such as knitting, and other artsy jobs in order to pay back her debt. She works hard because she is an independent woman.
ReplyDeleteWhen she leaves her husband, Torvald, and kids, this can be seen as a sign of weakness or strength and argued both ways. i believe that in only re ittirates her feminist being because it shows that she goes against society to make herself happy. it IS however, a very selfish act becuase she leaves behind her kids. BUT she does so in order to fulfill her happiness. Many people would say that she is weak becuase she leaves her family but in this time period it is severely looked down upon and the fact that she still goes through with the action makes a statement that she is willing to be a strong woman and follow through with her actions in order to pursue her journey into an independent woman.
It will be a long process, that will take her down many roads, but leaving her family, is a stepping stone in her path and makes her a true feminist.
It was never the intention of Henrik Ibsen for his play, "A Doll's House," to be seen as a feminist work. Nora is to be thought of as a person strugling against the oppression of Victorian society with its moral standards and societal expectations, not a oman struggling against a sexist socity. If Nora is a feminist, she would have most likeyl tried to have a somewhat deep conversation with Torvald way before he found out about her deal with Krogstad. Her leaving her family is not an act of feminist rebellion; rather, it is an act of someone going through a mid-life crisis. When Torvald asks her if she will ever come back, sh replies, "'I haven't in the least idea what'll become of me'" (1760). Nora, at this moment, is overcome with the emotion of Torvald finding out about her debt to Krogstad and i not making a guarantee that she will not return to her family and expected duties. Nora also does not want to or plan to tell her husband about what happened with Krogstad but is forced to by Mrs. Linde not allowing Krogstad to take his letter back, indicaing that she would be happy to continue on with her normal life if Torvald does not find out about Krogstad. Nora even says to Torvald, "'I never for an instant dreamed that you could give into his terms. I was so sure that you'd say to him:...tell your tale to the whole wide world'" (1760) showing that she expects him to save her, which goes directly against the idea of feminist rebellion. Nora is not a feminist; she is just someone struggling with a highly emotional situation.
ReplyDeleteNora is similar to Enda Pontellier from The Awakening. Because of the similarities between these two women, my opinion is that Nora is a feminist. Nora clearly takes charge in her marriage, which is especially noticeable at the end of the story when she leaves. This is unlikely behavior of women during this time.
ReplyDeleteI consider Nora to ne Mrs. Pontellier's more stable, less permanent cousin. Both Nora and Edna break societal rules by leaving their husbands. However, Nora is not a feminist character. Edna is "awoken" and inspired to leave her husband. she cannot go back. She too abandons her children and husband in order to find herself. Similarly also is the open endedness of the novel. In contract, Nora is a woman who is aware of her ability to act on her own. Earlier in her life, when she forged her deceased father's signature on a loan, Nora supported herself. In hiding her secret, she did act a bit unaturally, but it was only in response to the pressures put on her by Krogstad. Nora is not a feminist character because her sex isn't the main focus of the work. She doesn't struggle, really, with the fact that she is a woman and trapped. This is probably due to the influence of Mrs. Linde, a woman who survived on her own for an extended period of time. She leaves her family, but still has the opportunity to return. She only expects to be treated like an equal in her relationship with Torvald, not superior.
ReplyDeleteIn this story feminism is blurred. The majority of the class believes that Nora is a feminist and I concur. Although natalie makes a valid point by saying, "Her leaving her family is not an act of feminist rebellion; rather, it is an act of someone going through a mid-life crisis. " Personally, I dislike nora and believe she is a feminist, that has blurred view of reality.
ReplyDeleteI’m not sure if Nora was ever “forced by society” to marry Torvald, and I wouldn’t consider their marriage to be unhealthy or unhappy. In fact, the marriage appears to be very healthy and happy up until Krogstad and Mrs. Linde became involved and sparked controversy. Compared to some of the other women we have read about recently like Mrs. Pontellier from “The Awakening” and Janie from “Their Eyes were Watching God,” I wouldn’t consider Nora to be as much of a feminist. From my understanding, she leaves Torvald out of guilt caused by his realization of how the money was acquired, and not out of rebellion. However, I do see some feminism in her leaving because it would take a lot of independence to defy society’s standards and leave her family. She is also breaking the moral standards of a responsible mother because she just leaves her children without warning. For this reason I believe (like we discussed in class) that it will not take long for Nora to return home because, after all, Torvald forgave her and never wanted her to leave in the first place. However, I would not consider Nora to be as much of a feminist as other female characters we have recently read about.
ReplyDeleteI don’t believe that just because a woman goes against the grain, she is a feminist. That is the equivalent of saying that every man who sits instead of stands is some sort of rebel towards society as well. Nora, who does break societal standards, but not moral ones, demonstrates that anyone, not just woman, can make change and not show any regret about it. Nora had the right to be scared of Torvald’s reaction if he had received the note, but afterward, the question comes if she was justified to walk out on him. Knowing that she was the victim of a “jimmy-rigged” loan scandal, Nora not only brings herself to a more human level, but shows that even the seemingly prosperous have skeletons in their closets. Like Janie in There Eyes Where Watching God, Nora must find herself and figure out what she wants and needs, before she can cater to her husband, friends, and society as a whole.
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